This Monday, Xavier Trias (Barcelona, 1946) confirmed his intention to seek the Together for Catalonia (Junts) candidature for the mayoralty of Barcelona at the 2023 municipal elections. The former mayor will thus occupy the position at the head of the Junts candidacy left vacant by Elsa Artadi, who stepped away from politics in May after she had been chosen in the primaries to lead the party in Barcelona city. With this decision, Trias re-enters the race to govern the Catalan capital, after previously being mayor of Barcelona between 2011 and 2015, and he does so convinced of his possibilities of victory, as he explains in an interview with ElNacional.cat in a Barcelona cafe.
I think it would be a mistake not to run and, therefore, I'm running, with the desire to win these elections and be mayor
You were out of politics, why did you decide to come back?
Because I was asked. Together for Catalonia, people from the world of politics, starting with president Puigdemont himself, Artur Mas, Pujol himself, Miquel Roca... And when I walk down the street, people stop me and tell me I have to run for the office. I think it would be a mistake not to run and, therefore, I'm running, with the desire to win these elections - I think there is a possibility of winning them - and with a desire not only to win them but to be mayor. At my age it only makes sense to run for mayor and that's what I intend to do.
You have set conditions for Junts over taking on this role. You asked for the freedom to make your own candidacy list. These months, names have been appearing, one of the first was that of Josep Maria Argimon, but then also Victòria Alsina, Damià Calvet, Ramon Tremosa...
Argimon won't go. Because he found a better job, that I would have taken too. I'm not surprised, we are very good friends, he has made a choice, which is scientific, which he will do very well; and the Fundació Pasqual Maragall will do very well too. But after that all the names came out. I haven't made the list yet, but it's true that I've talked about many of them.
Alsina, Calvet, Tremosa... Are these some of them?
Those are some of the names, but there will be more.
We move between the centre right and the centre left, a sovereignist space. I aspire to the support of the people of PDeCAT
Do these names represent a return to [former centre-right Catalanist party] CDC? Do you want to occupy the space that was CiU represented and which is said to have been left without a party?
I avoid petty arguments. I am proud to have been at Convergència for many years. The times have changed. They killed CDC. I wouldn't have killed it, but it doesn't make sense anymore. And, therefore, what we are going to do is give strength to a space that moves between the centre right and the centre left, which is a sovereignist space, and which is very clear that it moves based on a great social concept, but at the same time a great public-private collaboration. This is the philosophy that pervaded CDC in its day, which I believe pervades Junts. This by making a party that is very open and that we are looking for the possibility of having adhesions. I always say that I aspire to have the support of the people of PDeCAT.
Do you want to go beyond the limits of Junts?
Yes.
Do you feel comfortable in Junts? It has also been said that you don't want any names from the Laura Borràs sector in your candidacy...
No. I never said that. That's what people say who want to get into the muck before they should. I want to make my list. People know what I'm like, how I have worked, those who agree with this way of doing things and working, have the doors open to collaborate with me. Those who want something else, a much more confrontational and bickering system... I go so far as to say that I want Colau to lose the elections and not govern, but I will not devote myself to an anti-Colau politics. I don't like that. There are comments I hear that I don't like. We must be able to have a good relationship with everyone.
We must always be in favor of dialogue. Our departure from this government has not been well explained.
Another of your conditions for accepting a candidate was for Junts to not leave the Catalan government. But it's left. How will this affect your campaign?
It won't affect it. I'm still one of those who think it shouldn't have left, but I understand those who think it should have done so. We explained it wrongly. You can leave because your project does not agree at the moment with the project that ERC may have for Catalunya, but focusing it on a quarrel about being in favour of dialogue or against dialogue is a mistake. We must always be in favor of dialogue. Our departure from this government has not been well explained.
Election deals will depend on the result. An agreement with the PSC is a possibility, but I also contemplate a pact with ERC
You also asked for freedom in the post-electoral pacts. Who will be your priority partner?
I won't talk about that. We'll see the results. It will depend on the result.
Do you consider agreeing with the PSC?
It's a possibility, but I would also contemplate a pact with ERC. That is, we'll see the result. Based on the result, we'll make decisions.
What I will not do is govern with just anyone. I will not govern with Colau. Nor with the PP.
With whom will he you not make a deal under any circumstances?
I am in favour of being able to make deals with everyone. What I will not do is govern with just anyone. I will not govern with Colau. That's obvious. I won't govern with the PP. However, I haven't governed with the PP in the past but have had important collaborations with them at one time. It's one thing to collaborate and have a good understanding and another thing to be in the same government, which is different. Because being in the same government means having loyalties, and this must be discussed in depth.
Colau is very worn out. At the time she was new and now she is no longer new. Everyone knows what she is about, that a large part of her action is theatre
The last time you ran for the municipal elections you lost to Ada Colau. Why will this time be different?
Because I hope to win. I think Ada Colau is very worn out. At the time she was new and now she is no longer new. Everyone knows what she is about, that a large part of her action is theatre, that many of the things she said she would do she has not fulfilled. I thought that Colau would govern the city of Barcelona and we would find ourselves with an explosion of public housing. What she has done is to spoil something that cost the city a lot, which is to make a very clear commitment to quality, design. This government with tactical urban planning has broken this very important Barcelona brand.
In those elections Colau beat you by one councillor. Some voices suggested that you should seek an alternative agreement...
It wasn't possible. There are still people who tell that story. But it's not true. It wasn't possible. It meant putting things together that you can't put together. You can win or lose, but what you must avoid is making a fool of yourself. If you win you must be generous, if you lose, you must be aware that you have lost. There are times when you can put things together. Colau did a juggling act which was to form a majority with Manuel Valls in the next elections, which was something unusual. But in my case this was not so. Nor would I do that sort of strange thing, I wouldn't have done it.
One of your main rivals will be Ernest Maragall, another veteran politician. Is this election a race of veterans?
With Ernest Maragall we formed the Municipal Charter (1998). I was an adviser to the Catalan presidency, imagine it if all those years ago...
Why have the municipal elections had to resort to veteran politicians?
I always wonder, in my case because my party and many people believe that I can win, they believe that I am the person to do this. In the case of Ernest Maragall, I suppose he must think the same. He is a person who won the previous elections, but they did not let him govern, which is different.
There are two people who I always say will have the leading places, and they are Neus Munté and Jordi Martí
But it seemed that years ago the commitment in politics was to renewal. Now, is it experience?
I am in favor of renewal, but there are times when it is not a problem of renewal, but of leadership. In city councils, the people who are in the opposition have very little public projection. Those who are in government, it depends on how they govern. The parties must consider promoting more people, because there are good people. I will bring very good people from within the city councils themselves. There are two people who I always say will have the leading places, who will be Neus Munté and Jordi Martí, who are of the highest level. It would be hard to find better. Another question is whether they are popular. You obtain popularity when they run an election campaign for you. These four years, whether I win or not - if I win even more so - one of the obligations Junts has is to put these new leaderships on the table, all those names you mentioned, and the ones I mentioned, are leaders and they are powerful.
Junts is not in a bad state. What hurts it are certain internal discussions and certain approaches
In any case, Junts with your candidacy is committing itself not only in Barcelona, but for the projection of the party at a time that is not easy...
The party is not in a bad state. What hurts it are certain internal discussions and certain approaches that we should leave aside and commit ourselves to what the people want. The people want us to govern well and to be clear about the city model we want. That is our big difference with Ada Colau.
For example?
We can all agree that the main problem a mayor has is fighting poverty. There are different mechanisms. One, which I am not saying should not be done, is to give subsidies. There is another mechanism that is more important, which is to be able to create economic activity and that creates jobs and that these jobs are not precarious. What is missing is leadership that puts the city where it belongs. This mania of being against the powerful is nonsense. If they are people who can invest in this city, we must make them invest, and then the job of the public administration is to see how the wealth they produce is distributed. But, we welcome those who generate wealth in our city. We must make this commitment very clearly. We have to make people come to the city to invest, in what interests us. We don't want people who come to speculate, we want people who invest, who create jobs.
What is missing is leadership that puts the city where it belongs. This mania of being against the powerful is nonsense. We welcome those who generate wealth in our city
You already have the electoral programme in mind...
We already had the ideas eight years ago. We invented many things for Barcelona that we were unable to carry out and we are carrying them out. What we won't do is tactical urbanism, painting colours on the roads...
Another of the areas in which proposals will have to be contrasted in this campaign is law and order...
Law and order, the first thing the mayor has to do is believe in that. There is one basic thing, which is for the municipal police to know that the mayor is on their side. Obviously we will be demanding over their performance, but we are with them and we want law and order in this city. This city has a problem of lack of municipal police, which must be corrected. But in addition, we have another problem. That there are few Mossos d'Esquadra. And if the Generalitat cannot deploy more Mossos d'Esquadra because it has no money, the municipal police must help the Mossos and the Mossos must be open to being helped. We made some very important agreements, especially because they show that the two administrations are in agreement and back the people who keep things in order.
Are you talking about the controversy over squatters?
There are things that are understandable, that you help people who are squatting in a flat because they have an extreme living situation, but defending squatting... when a mayor does this it is nonsense. Another thing is that you understand and help people who are in borderline situations. But if squatting is illegal, it is illegal.
I am not a candidate. I am going to stand in the primaries. We have this mechanism, I think it's a bit complicated, but it's how the party does it
Will you take part in primaries?
Yes. What I have done is to tell the party members that I am ready to go. I am not [yet] a candidate. I am going to stand in the primaries. We have this mechanism, I think it's a bit complicated, but it's how the party does it. I will not be the one to change the operation of the statutes of this party.